J.J. Abrams' Star Trek Into Darkness

[Khonsu70]

I wouldn't have the Reliant again. While I can conceive that that ship would exist at this point, just as the Enterprise does, it'd be a bit too coincidental perhaps that it would be stolen by khan or joachim in this reality aswell.

Agreed, while it's fun to be able to use elements of the original Trek universe, I think part of the brilliance of the reboot is being able to use those elements in fresh, new ways. If something like the Reliant were to make an appearance in a plot involving one of the Eugenics Wars super humans, it would be best as a cameo or an easter-egg, not a plot device.

 

[a-dev]

I heard Horner and Cameron had a falling out for a time over the score to Aliens. Cameron had mentioned the action beats sounded too derivative of Horner's Star Trek TWOK soundtrack. It was ~10 years before they would work together again on Titanic.

Then they did Avatar together aswell so they obviously mended their relationship.

All composers have a specific style that repeats itself over different movies they do. I think it's been suggested Horner is more guilty of this than most especially when you compare Battle Beyond the Stars, Krull and TWOK the beats are very similar but then saying that, Elfman and even John Williams aren't averse to reusing similar music they created previously.

Exactly all composers pretty much sound the same from one film to another. Ideally though one hopes that they manage to create at least one great new theme in each film they do and I think Horner is still managing to do that. John Williams notsomuch anymore IMO.

 

[Khonsu70]

Y'know its been nice talking about Star Trek in here. Its not very big on these forums.

Next time I'm in the attic I'm taking down all the DS9 DVDs. That show was astounding, particularly from season 4 onwards.

Listening to the Star Trek First Contact score at the minute.
Just came to the ''If you were any other man I would kill you where you stand'' bit. Great stuff.

Thank you for expressing this! Star Trek was what got me into collecting in the first place (still have that old Playmates stuff, though it's packed away). DS9 really has a place in my heart, just love that show. Maybe not as iconic as the original series or TNG, but the writing was great (especially from Season 4 on), the evolving and expanding cast of characters was brilliant, and it had such love for all other things Trek (particularly the original series), it just was a treat to watch. I had always hoped for a DS9 miniseries centered around Sisko's return, but the series did such a good job of wrapping things up with a big bow (though Sisko's battle with Dukat should have been more epic in scale), I guess I really can't complain.

Dunno why Trek doesn't get more love on this forum. I think we're almost far enough out that Paramount could try out a new series on a new generation? Maybe that would capture peoples' attention more than a stand alone film here and there?

 

[Bardoon]

I heard Horner and Cameron had a falling out for a time over the score to Aliens. Cameron had mentioned the action beats sounded too derivative of Horner's Star Trek TWOK soundtrack. It was ~10 years before they would work together again on Titanic.

Very true.

The basic story that was told is this:

James Cameron is known as a micromanager and somewhat difficult director to work with, despite his many successes and the fact he is a proven talent, he still has a reputation of an a-hole.

When working on ALIENS, he filmed it in England where the UK Movie workers Union has different rules. The English staff first off didn't get along with Cameron because they believed this "upstart" American director was nothing compared to Ridley Scott (a Brit). Cameron tried showing "The Terminator" to the British crew to help change their mind.

The British workers were constantly citing Union rules to go on break (tea-time, etc.). Cameron would be in the middle of filming a scene when the British workers would then just go on their breaks. Also, Cameron had disputes with his British counterparts, like the assistant director and lighting director who thought they knew better how to film the movie. Cameron wanted a lot of the scenes DARK and the lighting director would purposely light them more which led to issues.

Basically, crew mutiny and a culture clash.

This led into conflicts between James Horner and Cameron. Obviously Cameron was frustrated from the stresses of filming ALIENS which led the score for the movie to be written VERY late in the entire post-production process. It stressed Horner out a lot however pushed him to develop one of the soundtracks he will always be famous for and was nominated for.

Obviously they patched up their differences and have worked on some successful work since then.

 

[KrisSolo]

OR... James Cameron (a Canadian) is a total ****** bag. My opinion (a Brit) Yep, drunk on the internet again...

 

[a-dev]

Thank you for expressing this! Star Trek was what got me into collecting in the first place (still have that old Playmates stuff, though it's packed away). DS9 really has a place in my heart, just love that show. Maybe not as iconic as the original series or TNG, but the writing was great (especially from Season 4 on), the evolving and expanding cast of characters was brilliant, and it had such love for all other things Trek (particularly the original series), it just was a treat to watch. I had always hoped for a DS9 miniseries centered around Sisko's return, but the series did such a good job of wrapping things up with a big bow (though Sisko's battle with Dukat should have been more epic in scale), I guess I really can't complain.

Dunno why Trek doesn't get more love on this forum. I think we're almost far enough out that Paramount could try out a new series on a new generation? Maybe that would capture peoples' attention more than a stand alone film here and there?

I have very little Trek merchandise. All I have is the Diamond Select (I think?) 25th anniversary Wrath of Khan Enterprise, battle-damaged version. Its an excellent replica for the price. I wish they had made a Reliant but I never saw one?? Theres been other ships I would have loved to buy - Enterprises A, B, D, E, Klingon BOP etc but my money is always going elsewhere.

At one point I had some First Contact toys, Enterprise E, Borg Sphere, Phoenix...and the Defiant...I think that might have been released as part of that line. And I had a few crappy figures. Those are all gone though.

DS9, I remember used to be one of my big Event shows. The one you practically watered at the mouth to see. I remember as far back as season 1 Odo was a pretty big deal with the morphing effects, like a golden version of the T-1000. And once the temporary end to the peace with the Klingons and then the Dominion War kicked in it was just really compelling viewing.

Voyager I didn't really get into until season 4 with Seven of Nine, Species 8472(?) VS the Borg and so on. Though it didn't take long for that to become just the same ol' $h!t.

Didn't watch much of Enterprise if I'm honest. Voyager had kinda put me off the idea of yet another show set on a federation ship and particularly one coming so immediately with no break at all. I just didn't see what they could do differently than what we'd seen on TNG, DS9's Defiant-based episodes and Voyager. Also to this day the Faith of the Heart song just seems like a stupid stupid move. Jerry Goldsmith or Dennis McCarthy or GTFO.

 

[Viking Spawn]

That is one crappy design.

I am not fan of J.J's Klingons so far with those stupid Gladiator style helmets..yay! lets be cheap and make them all look the same.
Only thing i like Klingon so far out of the J.J-verse is the D7/K'tinga inspired Klingon Warbird.

Where did you see that? I missed it...

 

[Kamandi]

Yep, drunk on the internet again...

 

[screamingmetal]

Where did you see that? I missed it...

Watch the deleted scenes of 2009 Star Trek, the Klingons are seen holding Nero prisoner wearing helmets.
The Kre-O mini figures from the new movie are also wearing the same helmets.

Those are Klingons in the background.

 

[Viking Spawn]

Watch the deleted scenes of 2009 Star Trek, the Klingons are seen holding Nero prisoner wearing helmets.
The Kre-O mini figures from the new movie are also wearing the same helmets.

Those are Klingons in the background.

Okay. thanks.

 

[Valfar]

OR... James Cameron (a Canadian) is a total ****** bag. My opinion (a Brit) Yep, drunk on the internet again...

Sounds like the Brit union workers were the real D-bags for prejudging him.

You don't just ****in drop what you are doing during a scene and go eat some scones and tea FFS!. XD

 

[Kamandi]

Most of the outtakes were really good and should have stayed in the final cut.

 

[Bardoon]

Sounds like the Brit union workers were the real D-bags for prejudging him.

You don't just ****in drop what you are doing during a scene and go eat some scones and tea FFS!. XD

Teatime is like a half-hour, forty-five minute event for Brits. It's not just a ten-fifteen minute coffee break.

From what I've read and heard, you're right that they prejudged Cameron before he even got there. He tried to win them over but they kept treating him crappy and disrespectfully. It went back and forth for a while during filming.

Anyways, back to the subject...I have to say that they're doing a good job of casting mass confusion of who Cumberbach (sp?) is playing. I constantly see reports over him being Khan only for someone else to say he's not Khan. Then he's Gary Mitchell, etc. etc.

 

[Khonsu70]

Watch the deleted scenes of 2009 Star Trek, the Klingons are seen holding Nero prisoner wearing helmets.
The Kre-O mini figures from the new movie are also wearing the same helmets.

Those are Klingons in the background.

I wouldn't mind the Klingon helmets so much if they were at least wearing their distinctive armor (and if the officers didn't wear helmets). I don't get the trench coat thing at all....

 

[Kamandi]

They're wearing coats because they're dressed for the harsh conditions on Rura Penthe, the Klingon prison world.

 

[Khonsu70]

I have very little Trek merchandise. All I have is the Diamond Select (I think?) 25th anniversary Wrath of Khan Enterprise, battle-damaged version. Its an excellent replica for the price. I wish they had made a Reliant but I never saw one?? Theres been other ships I would have loved to buy - Enterprises A, B, D, E, Klingon BOP etc but my money is always going elsewhere.

Diamond is is the process of re-releasing some old ships and producing some that didn't see the light of day, to show that there's still life left in the line. I think if they do well, Diamond plans on doing some more. So far they've released a new Klingon BOP (really excellent for the price point!), they are releasing an Enterprise B (excited to see this one), re-releasing the "All Good Things" Enterprise D, which I picked up because I missed it the first time round. They are re-releasing the Enterprise-E, HD TOS Enterprise, and WOK Enterprise refit in the next few weeks. I'm a little jealous that you got the Battle damaged WOK Enterprise, I picked up the regular clean version, missed the WOK and SFS damaged versions - maybe they'll be re-released as well? That WOK Enterprise still holds up as an excellent little ship. No plans for a Reliant (yet?), but if these ships sell well, who knows?

At one point I had some First Contact toys, Enterprise E, Borg Sphere, Phoenix...and the Defiant...I think that might have been released as part of that line. And I had a few crappy figures. Those are all gone though.

The Playmates stuff was barely passable for the time, and just terrible by today's standards. Inaccurate Enterprise E, Phoenix - bleh! Borg Sphere was okay, for what it was. They did make a few gems, but the only reason I hang on to 98% of it is because I haven't had the time to sort the stuff out and get rid it. Would keep the DS9 they made, that was decent. And the Voyager and Defiant, until better ones come along (maybe?).

Voyager I didn't really get into until season 4 with Seven of Nine, Species 8472(?) VS the Borg and so on. Though it didn't take long for that to become just the same ol' $h!t.

To this day, I haven't seen most of seasons 5, 6, and 7 of Voyager. I just couldn't do it any more. Voyager became like all the sub-par episodes of all the other series thrown in a blender. I think that's why I was able to give Enterprise a chance. At it's worst, Enterprise Seasons 1 and 2 were no worse than Voyager, and quite often it surpassed that. Season 3 was weird, but watchable, and Season four really started to get my interest, just in time to be cancelled. Oh well.

Also to this day the Faith of the Heart song just seems like a stupid stupid move. Jerry Goldsmith or Dennis McCarthy or GTFO.

Agreed 110%!

 

[Khonsu70]

They're wearing coats because they're dressed for the harsh conditions on Rura Penthe, the Klingon prison world.

Oh, I see. I think I prefer the furs and armor of ST:VI Klingons on Rura Penthe, it just seems more "Klingon", but this explanation at least akes sense for the coats. Would have loved it if they kept the Klingon subplot in, instead of relegating it to a short run of comics (although it was cool seeing V-Ger in there!)

 

[Khonsu70]

That is one crappy design.

I am not fan of J.J's Klingons so far with those stupid Gladiator style helmets..yay! lets be cheap and make them all look the same.

I look at it this way. When TMP first came out, I'm pretty sure I remember resistance from fans over the radical redesign of the Klingons - head ridges, armor, pointy teeth. The powers that be wanted them to look more fierce, alien, and cinematic, and had the budget to do just that. Now we look at original series Klingons with the shoe polish on their faces and fu manchu mustaches and think they look silly, dated, and campy. Klingons with head ridges, armor, and pointy teeth became the new norm. Now there is a new wave of film-makers who have upped the ante on the visual "wow" factor in films and audiences have become jaded about what was considered "cool" 15 years ago. So if Abrams and company want to do a bit of reimagining, I'm keeping an open mind. I am impressed by how much attention to detail there is regarding the entire Trek universe, even if Abrams publicly stated he isn't a Trek fan (what a dumb thing to say), it's obvious a lot of people working with him have a real passion and feel for the source material.

Only thing i like Klingon so far out of the J.J-verse is the D7/K'tinga inspired Klingon Warbird.

The D-7 is such a solid design, it's impossible to go wrong with it, so long as you keep the overall lines the same, which they wisely chose to do...

 

[Kamandi]

My problem with the Klingons is there's no explanation for their change.

The UFP were reacting to the destruction of the Kelvin by the Romulans, prompting them to be more aggressive with Starship design and R&D.

 

[tamato]

To jump on the ship collecting discussion I just want to show off my grail. The amazing Master Replicas TOS enterprise, almost 3 feet long! I love this thing!