Halloween (spoilers)

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It's a new look on the original story, at least as described when the project began. Zombie felt that there was more story to tell about Michael, rather than having him be the boogeyman and be some abstract character, he wanted to give him more back story and define his character more, and develop some of the other characters more so and in different ways, but also working towards reflecting the original a fair ammount.


I'm actually glad its explaining Michael more, I was always content with the Carpenter version but upon watching it with my wife last night (her for the first time) I realized just how much wasn't explained. How he escaped from the Asylum exactly, why he took his sister's tombstone, what happened that made everyone so fearful of him. My wife pointed out the lack of backstory and the fact that some parts weren't fully explained but still enjoyed the film as much as I did.
 
I'm actually glad its explaining Michael more, I was always content with the Carpenter version but upon watching it with my wife last night (her for the first time) I realized just how much wasn't explained. How he escaped from the Asylum exactly, why he took his sister's tombstone, what happened that made everyone so fearful of him. My wife pointed out the lack of backstory and the fact that some parts weren't fully explained but still enjoyed the film as much as I did.

Thats just the thing.................the unexplained! I think this alone is what made Carpenter's Halloween so mysterious and leaving everyone on the edge! Just think of this, if you had every answer in life would there be much left to live for? I you had no hope would there be any reason to keep living?

Well at least thats how I see it. You're lucky I can't get my wife into horror movies at all.
 
I agree the unexplained is good for suspense reasons but if you look at it through new eyes you see that there was a slaughter predicted over and over and a body count of only 4? He did go back to the Myers house but for what? I love the film and question a new one being made but if it fills in some of the gaps then works for me. Anything to get new Michael Myers stuff out there.
 
I agree the unexplained is good for suspense reasons but if you look at it through new eyes you see that there was a slaughter predicted over and over and a body count of only 4? He did go back to the Myers house but for what? I love the film and question a new one being made but if it fills in some of the gaps then works for me. Anything to get new Michael Myers stuff out there.

Thats why I want to still see it too, tonite we'll have more clarification and a better idea of course. Enjoy.
 
Thats just the thing.................the unexplained! I think this alone is what made Carpenter's Halloween so mysterious and leaving everyone on the edge! Just think of this, if you had every answer in life would there be much left to live for? I you had no hope would there be any reason to keep living?

Exactly. The "Why" wasn't important. The simple set-up of him being in a standard middle-class loving family made what he did feel even more horrible and even more perplexing. Seeing Michael growing up in hillbilly hell doesn't add anything to it. That's just so telegraphed and simple. Focusing on his past misses the point entirely. He went home and decided to stalk and kill these girls. There was no sister subplot in the original movie. The sheer randomness is what's frightening, he could be anyone.
 
Having not seen the movie yet I wonder the motive between linking Myers and Laurie....I thought it was much more ominous that he would stalk a random teen that reminded him slightly of his sister or even better just a random teen themselves then have him hunt down his family.....then again maybe I'll be surprised tonight.
 
I'll wait until I see the movie before I say its good or bad but I never felt that it would be like the original. The original Halloween is still the best horror picture in my book and it will never be equaled BUT I will give Robs version of Halloween a chance before I slam it. I will give my views after I see it this weekend.

But so far the reviews aint good and that sucks.
 
Ok, just got back from seeing the movie and here's my 2 cents.

First off, in my opinion, if you like the Halloween series of films, then this movie is worth your time and money, and in my opinion is the best Halloween put out since Halloween 2 and is about equal in quality to H20.

Secondly, a few things to share for my fellow Michael Myers lovers who have hopes for this film. First, FORGET that John Carpenter's film exists, enjoy the reflections of his film in this piece and leave it at nostalgia, don't use it for comparison, this is mainly an entirely new film just with a familiar story. Secondly, I know from readind around here that people have preconceived notions about Rob Zombie, so when you sit down to watch this film, forget who made it and all that and just take things as they come.

Ok, enough of that, here's my overall look at this film, some comparison to Carpenter's included.

First comparison point, Carpenter's film was about Laurie Strode, Zombie's film is about Michael Myers. Second comparison point, Carpenter's Myers was an abstract force that happend to have a human manifestation to give a plot to the film; Zombie's Myers is a person, albeit highly messed up in the head, with a few supernatural showings but for the most part, not an immortal, unstoppable force.

Now, as for the film judged on it's own merit. First off, reports of the "gore" in this film, in my opinion, are either based on seeing a different cut than what's being run in theater's, or drastically exaggerated. There was a great deal of violence and blood in this film, but overally, I didn't think it was any worse truly than any of the H4-Resurrection sequels, and frankly, some of the deaths in the most recent Hannibal Lecter films were far more grotesque and brutal in my mind. As for the white trash family elements, there was a bit more time spent on it, but my impression was the Zombie really wanted to define Michael like a real life psychopath and get into the nature vs. nurture debate in pscyhology. Overall, I don't think those parts were as bad as some have reported, the only part that truly bothered me is that Zombie included a clothed strip club montage to show off his wife, there was no reason for it other than that so it was a bit bothersome.

As far as high points of this film, number one, the soundtrack sounded very nice and was very reflective of the original, thankfully he didn't go off on his own path and kept music true to the origins, bravo for that. Secondly, Malcom McDowell turns in a fabulous performance as Dr. Loomis, I still love Donald Pleasance as well, but if Loomis had to be played by someone else, I can't think of anyone that could have done as nice a job at it. While still not as good as Captain Kirk, the mask was the nicest looking used since H1 & H2. The last real high point I can think of is the filming and lighting, I felt, whoever was in charge of shooting really made great choices on angles and zooms and the lighting was well done and all in all, it visually felt like a more old school film than some of the shooting styles of today.

Low points of the film; first and foremost for me was the minimal part Laurie Strode had in the film and the utter departure from how the character was written by Carpenter and hill, not the same person. Again, the pointless showing off of Zombie's wife is a definite low point for me. The only other major low point for me was that the film was made, surprisingly, with no sign of potential sequels, no holds barred, everyone could go, and I won't be spoilerific about it, even though this is a spoiler thread, I'll keep spoilers to less than critical points.

Again, overall, it was a great "sequel" if you keep your mind open to viewing it that way and I'd definitely rank it well among the series.

In fact, in closing, here's my rankings.

1 - Halloween
2 - Hallween 2
3 - H20 / Rob Zombie's Halloween
4 - Halloween 6
5 - Hallween 4
6 - Halloween 5
7 - Resurrection

That's not including H3 because it's non Myers.
 
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Just got back from seeing it, and my opinion is that it's half incredible and half utter crap.

Since this is the spoiler thread, here goes:

Explaining Michael as a violent schizophrenic with two distinct personalities worked extremely well because they didn't just say "Oh, he's a schizo" They explored the psychological foundations in subtle ways. The preoccupation with masks. Michael's obsession with wearing them to hide his "ugliness" as he described himself. The scene where he tells Loomis he colored a particular mask black because it's his favorite color and Loomis explains that black is actually the absence of color. Michael indicating that he had no recollection of the murders.

I work in the mental health field and have dealt with a few schizophrenic children, so I can honestly say that it's pretty accurate for a horror film. In fact, Michael reminded me a great deal of one kid I worked with briefly a few years back. When not engaged one-on-one, this kid would rock in his chair, mutter/whisper to unseen people, and slash at his own throat with his finger (gesturally though...no actual contact). And like Michael in the movie, this kid could snap and turn extremely violent within a split second.

Another positive is that (much to my surprise) Sheri Moon Zombie can actually ACT!!! Her suicide scene was extremely unsettling because you could really feel the desperation and utter loss she felt after seeing Michael "in action"

Unfortunately, Rob Zombie can't direct a movie to save his life. The man lacks three key qualities needed in this kind of movie: showing suspense, pacing, and transitions. Apparently, the Zombie school of thought is that suspense means making things very, VERY loud. The pacing? Let's just say that we go from the girls on the street in the update of the original's "Hey, speed kills" scene to almost only three minutes later being at Lynda's murder. Someone needs to figure out where that missing thirty minutes went!! And transitions? There were NONE!!! Even the title card was just thrown on the screen like an iMovie reject. In fact, the ending, which could've been an excellent one, was ruined by choppy editing.

Also, this is clearly a reimagining (and a well-thought out one in terms of the young Myers scenes), so why oh why would you start redoing the original film's shots a la the much maligned 1998 Psycho remake??? It only served to remove viewers from the idea of reimagining and start viewing it as a remake, which are definitely two different things in this case.

Additionally, the characterization of Laurie Strode was horrible. What was once a shy, repressed young girl now became a snotty, spoiled brat with a filthy mouth (her intro scene clearly establishes that). But the connection between Laurie, Sheriff Brackett, and the Strode adoption was very original and gave a lot of depth to Brackett's character in only a few sentences.

Lastly, Tyler Mane...

Even if Zombie had gone with the original interpretation of the Shape, Tyler would've been a very good choice. This is an extremely violent Myers, and he has the lightning quick outbursts of strength down pat. But this is also a conflicted Myers with a more nurturing side to his schizophrenia that comes out when he finds Laurie. He's not looking to kill her. He wants to protect her like he did as a child. And Tyler conveys that sentiment through the mask.

This would've been an excellent movie if Zombie's directorial skills were more developed. But they're not, and that severely cripples the execution of this film's potential.

OK...I've rambled on for long enough. :)
 
You forgot 5 on your list MF.

I'm seeing it tomorrow. My grandpa wasn't able to get a hold of Don Shanks so he might be out of town working on a film or something. :monkey2 Would have been cool to hear a past Myer's take the on the film.
 
A few comments in regards to MaulFan's review.

First, MF, where does H5 standing in your rankings? You left it out.

Second, I fully agree with the ****ysis of the strip sequence. Knowning who Sheri is, it's obvious he was trying to show her off. Which is baffling because she's sickly thin.

The use of the old Halloween cues were very good, and thankfully no death metal that I recall. A lot of period-specific music that served the music rather than the other way around. Unfortunately, a lot of the score was way too loud but that's because Zombie apparently thinks suspense=really loud noise.

Malcolm McDowell was an incredible Loomis and brought a lot to the role...especially in the earlier years. One part that made me chuckle was his whole "eyes of a psychopath" speech. When he says that, the whole screen is a tight shot of HIS eyes and they certainly look crazed.
 
What's funny is reading these spoilers makes me want to see the film more because I'm dying to throw my two pennies into this. I am a big fan of Michael Myers and upon reading these seem to think that the general thought is that this is a different side to a familiar character.....on a side note I got better looks at the mask today and really hope that Spooktacular offers a Zombie Michael Myers it'd be a great contrast with the original offering (that I still need to track down) IMHO....
 
Fixed my rankings guys, 5's included now, when you see where it is in the list you'll understand missing it.

Just so people have an understanding of my fandom to related to how I viewed this film, I've loved Halloween for almost a decade now, one of the first real horror films I saw. Actually, Halloween 6 was the first I saw and I liked it enough I had to check out the rest and as I built my VHS collection (ya, my fandom goes pre-DVD haha) I always rented the ones I was missing multiple times throughout October, and I jumped with glee when McFarlane made their figure. I went as Michael to a Halloween party once, but suffice to say, there was drinking and my mask didn't survive, but I may revisit that notion this Halloween. I don't own one of the replica film masks yet, much as I love it, in the long list of collectibles I'm trying to get, it messes up the budget a bit. I love Michael Myers the character, and loved the storyline of 1 and 2 where he was more a supernatural force, it felt very X-Files like to me in that when you think the bizarre killer is dead, he's not and seemingly nothing can stop him. I enjoy the series overall, but other than H2 and H20, I've had very critical feelings about the sequels, and some of you may remember me saying before, I feel that having H1, H2 and H20 as a trilogy would be a great begun and concluded storyline and leave the Thorn and Resurrection plots out of the mix. As much as I felt Michael's post Judith murder time shouldn't be explored, it was interesting to see the playing out of the story I've heard Loomis tell in Carpenters over and over with all my viewings; "I spent 8 years trying to reach him, and then another 7 trying to keep him locked up because I realized that what was living behind that boys eyes was purely and simply evil." You always assumed the lengths to which Loomis tried to deal with Michael in the old films, but now you get to see a very emotional effort and see him really devote himself to Michael's care and a connection form, and in a way, seeing that in this film gives me a better look upon the Loomis of the old series, much like seeing young Darth Vader's life gave me a new perspective on adult Darth Vader's life in Star Wars.
 
This is my revised list here.

  1. Halloween
  2. Hallween 2
  3. H20 (unjustly suffers from the Scream backlash)
  4. Hallween 4 (a better director would have placed this one higher)
Treading the Phantom Zone
Rob Zombie's Halloween, Halloween 5, Resurrection, Halloween 6
 
This is my revised list here.

  1. Halloween
  2. Hallween 2
  3. H20 (unjustly suffers from the Scream backlash)
  4. Hallween 4 (a better director would have placed this one higher)
Treading the Phantom Zone
Rob Zombie's Halloween, Halloween 5, Resurrection, Halloween 6

Highest grossing Halloween to date my friend and I agree with you on part 4.
 
I was able to get a screener from a friend who works for dimension, but it was alternate cut. He was pretty sure the difference was how Michael escapes from the sanitarium. Can someone who has seen the movie in theaters post how he gets out just so I can confirm if that was the difference on the version I have.
 
Ok, just got back from seeing the movie and here's my 2 cents.

First off, in my opinion, if you like the Halloween series of films, then this movie is worth your time and money, and in my opinion is the best Halloween put out since Halloween 2 and is about equal in quality to H20.

Secondly, a few things to share for my fellow Michael Myers lovers who have hopes for this film. First, FORGET that John Carpenter's film exists, enjoy the reflections of his film in this piece and leave it at nostalgia, don't use it for comparison, this is mainly an entirely new film just with a familiar story. Secondly, I know from readind around here that people have preconceived notions about Rob Zombie, so when you sit down to watch this film, forget who made it and all that and just take things as they come.

Ok, enough of that, here's my overall look at this film, some comparison to Carpenter's included.

First comparison point, Carpenter's film was about Laurie Strode, Zombie's film is about Michael Myers. Second comparison point, Carpenter's Myers was an abstract force that happend to have a human manifestation to give a plot to the film; Zombie's Myers is a person, albeit highly messed up in the head, with a few supernatural showings but for the most part, not an immortal, unstoppable force.

Now, as for the film judged on it's own merit. First off, reports of the "gore" in this film, in my opinion, are either based on seeing a different cut than what's being run in theater's, or drastically exaggerated. There was a great deal of violence and blood in this film, but overally, I didn't think it was any worse truly than any of the H4-Resurrection sequels, and frankly, some of the deaths in the most recent Hannibal Lecter films were far more grotesque and brutal in my mind. As for the white trash family elements, there was a bit more time spent on it, but my impression was the Zombie really wanted to define Michael like a real life psychopath and get into the nature vs. nurture debate in pscyhology. Overall, I don't think those parts were as bad as some have reported, the only part that truly bothered me is that Zombie included a clothed strip club montage to show off his wife, there was no reason for it other than that so it was a bit bothersome.

As far as high points of this film, number one, the soundtrack sounded very nice and was very reflective of the original, thankfully he didn't go off on his own path and kept music true to the origins, bravo for that. Secondly, Malcom McDowell turns in a fabulous performance as Dr. Loomis, I still love Donald Pleasance as well, but if Loomis had to be played by someone else, I can't think of anyone that could have done as nice a job at it. While still not as good as Captain Kirk, the mask was the nicest looking used since H1 & H2. The last real high point I can think of is the filming and lighting, I felt, whoever was in charge of shooting really made great choices on angles and zooms and the lighting was well done and all in all, it visually felt like a more old school film than some of the shooting styles of today.

Low points of the film; first and foremost for me was the minimal part Laurie Strode had in the film and the utter departure from how the character was written by Carpenter and hill, not the same person. Again, the pointless showing off of Zombie's wife is a definite low point for me. The only other major low point for me was that the film was made, surprisingly, with no sign of potential sequels, no holds barred, everyone could go, and I won't be spoilerific about it, even though this is a spoiler thread, I'll keep spoilers to less than critical points.

Again, overall, it was a great "sequel" if you keep your mind open to viewing it that way and I'd definitely rank it well among the series.

In fact, in closing, here's my rankings.

1 - Halloween
2 - Hallween 2
3 - H20 / Rob Zombie's Halloween
4 - Halloween 6
5 - Hallween 4
6 - Halloween 5
7 - Resurrection

That's not including H3 because it's non Myers.


"Again, the pointless showing off of Zombie's wife is a definite low point for me."

MaulFan, How can you say such things!!!! I LOVE the fact that Sheri is in the movies! She is a great actress! She did a great job as Baby Firefly in House Of 1000 Corpses and The Devil's Rejects! I hope to see her in the movie biz for a long time. :D
 
"Again, the pointless showing off of Zombie's wife is a definite low point for me."

I will say this tho' - she looked the part. 40-ish stripper that looks like she's got a lot of mileage on her - yeah. I know crying scenes are hard but it wasn't working for her.
 
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