Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (June 30th, 2023)

[Wor-Gar]

It was established in The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles that Indy was born 1st July 1899.

So he was only around 70 in DoD, with plenty of time for him to lose his right eye by the time of the 1993 bookends.

I wouldn't trust a TV over the movies, but since his age is never stated, then apparently he's 37 in Raiders. Only two years off my assumption. Fine.

 

[Wor-Gar]

They don't think they specifically state Indy's age in the LC opener, only the year it takes place, but Phoenix was about 18 when they filmed TLC, but I'm willing to say maybe he's meant to be 16 (I mean he is shown as a boy scout, but looks closer to 18 than he does 14 - he's clearly not cast as a "child" actor...)

If he's 16 there, then he was born 1896, which would make him 40 in 1936/ROTLA, so nearly 50 (48) in 1944.

Based on Asta's info, looks like his age is right between us both.

 

[Wor-Gar]

I'll take a full-length Polar Express-looking Indy Adventure any time.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Some of these recent crazy endings -- space ships and time travel -- might actually play better in a CGI'd Indy adventure.

I can't believe I'm on the side of a "cartoon" here.

 

[Felinx]

Based on Asta's info, looks like his age is right between us both.

I dunno - that would make the River Phoenix Indy in TLC only 13 years old. Beyond the visuals (there's no way Phoenix looks 13...) he's holding his own in fight after fight with a group of surly grown men among other things, such as leaping onto a moving train.

As context, KHQ was 13 at the time TOD came out.

I don't think even the Rock or Arnie could do what River does in TLC when they were 13.

 

[Asta]

I wouldn't trust a TV over the movies, but since his age is never stated, then apparently he's 37 in Raiders. Only two years off my assumption. Fine.

I checked up on the current canon after I posted. The Adventures/Chronicles are still included, even the Old Indy bookends which were removed from the home media so the series could be presented in chronological order:

TV canon includes all released episodes of:

• The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles
• The Adventures of Young Indiana Jones

All content should be taken into consideration, including the Chronicles' George Hall bookends[2][3] and the Adventures' bridging footage.

https://indianajones.fandom.com/wik...ll released,Adventures of Young Indiana Jones

 

[Felinx]

I'll take a full-length Polar Express-looking Indy Adventure any time.

As I said a week or so ago, that CGI in DoD was done two years ago. An Indy adventure done in that DoD opener style in 5-7 years from now would look much better.

It could be done with Ford doing the voice (altered as needed) and performing the closer-up scenes, so it would still technically be him "playing" Indy. But it'd be more like a Pixar movie in terms of his involvement. So he could do this even when he's mid-later 80s.

 

[Asta]

The authorities finally caught up to Indy with that statutory rape allegation filed by Abner Ravenwood in regards to his daughter (she was 16 if you go by the movie, 11 if you go by that notorious Lucas/Spielberg/Kasdan story meeting recording), even though Indy tried a trick he learned in Afghanistan where you later marry your rape victim and everything's forgiven.

The text of that notorious recording, which also contains their ideas for how old Indy should be:

G — We have to get them cemented into a very strong relationship. A bond.

L — I like it if they already had a relationship at one point. Because then you don't have to build it.

G — I was thinking that this old guy could have been his mentor. He could have known this little girl when she was just a kid. Had an affair with her when she was eleven.

L — And he was forty-two.

G — He hasn't seen her in twelve years. Now she's twenty-two. It's a real strange relationship.

S — She had better be older than twenty-two.

G — He's thirty-five, and he knew her ten years ago when he was twenty-five and she was only twelve.

G — It would be amusing to make her slightly young at the time.

S — And promiscuous. She came onto him.

G — Fifteen is right on the edge. I know it's an outrageous idea, but it is interesting. Once she's sixteen or seventeen it's not interesting anymore. But if she was fifteen and he was twenty-five and they actually had an affair the last time they met. And she was madly in love with him and he...

S — She has pictures of him.

G — There would be a picture on the mantle of her, her father, and him. She was madly in love with him at the time and he left her because obviously it wouldn't work out. Now she's twenty-five and she's been living in Nepal since she was eighteen. It's not only that they like each other, it's a very bizarre thing, it puts a whole new perspective on this whole thing. It gives you lots of stuff to play off of between them. Maybe she still likes him. It's something he'd rather forget about and not have come up again. This gives her a lot of ammunition to fight with.

S — In a way, she could say, "You've made me this hard."

G — This is a resource that you can either mine or not. It's not as blatant as we're talking about. You don't think about it that much. You don't immediately realize how old she was at the time. It would be subtle. She could talk about it. "I was jail bait the last time we were together." She can flaunt it at him, but at the same time she never says, "I was fifteen years old." Even if we don't mention it, when we go to cast the part we're going to end up with a woman who's about twenty-three and a hero who's about thirty-five.

"RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK" Story Conference Transcript, January 23, 1978 thru January 27, 1978.

George Lucas, Steven Spielberg, Larry Kasdan

 

[Asta]

The legacy of that lived on in Campbell Black novelization:

Maybe not, maybe not with somebody as single-minded as Abner. A grudge was a grudge-and if a colleague had an affair with your daughter, your child, then the grudge would be long and hard. Indy sighed. A weakness, he thought. Why couldn't you have been strong back then? Why did you have to get so carried away? So involved with a kid? But then, she hadn't seemed like a kid, more a child-woman, something in her eyes and her look suggesting more than a girl going through adolescence.

"I'm sorry," he said.

"Big deal."

"I'm really sorry."

"I thought I was in love with you," she said. "And look what you did with that sacred piece of knowledge."

"I didn't mean to hurt you."

"I was a child!" "Look, I did what I did. I'm not happy about it, I can't explain it. And I don't expect you to be happy about it, either."

"It was wrong, Indiana Jones. And you knew it was wrong."

Indiana Jones: tomb raider, thief and cradle snatcher.

The film contains the "I was a child...it was wrong and you knew it." But it's quickly glossed over.

 

[Wor-Gar]

I dunno - that would make the River Phoenix Indy in TLC only 13 years old. Beyond the visuals (there's no way Phoenix looks 13...) he's holding his own in fight after fight with a group of surly grown men among other things, such as leaping onto a moving train.

As context, KHQ was 13 at the time TOD came out.

I don't think even the Rock or Arnie could do what River does in TLC when they were 13.

Since I don't like the opening in TLC, I'm happily willing to make it go away.

Or, at the very least, add it to the LONG list of Lucas age screw ups, along with Marion's age (when she was originally 'dating' Indy) and Ben Kenobi's age from PT to OT.

 

[Felinx]

The text of that notorious recording, which also contains their ideas for how old Indy should be:

G — We have to get them cemented into a very strong relationship. A bond.

L — I like it if they already had a relationship at one point. Because then you don't have to build it.

G — I was thinking that this old guy could have been his mentor. He could have known this little girl when she was just a kid. Had an affair with her when she was eleven.

L — And he was forty-two.

G — He hasn't seen her in twelve years. Now she's twenty-two. It's a real strange relationship.

S — She had better be older than twenty-two.

G — He's thirty-five, and he knew her ten years ago when he was twenty-five and she was only twelve.

G — It would be amusing to make her slightly young at the time.

S — And promiscuous. She came onto him.

G — Fifteen is right on the edge. I know it's an outrageous idea, but it is interesting. Once she's sixteen or seventeen it's not interesting anymore. But if she was fifteen and he was twenty-five and they actually had an affair the last time they met. And she was madly in love with him and he...

S — She has pictures of him.

G — There would be a picture on the mantle of her, her father, and him. She was madly in love with him at the time and he left her because obviously it wouldn't work out. Now she's twenty-five and she's been living in Nepal since she was eighteen. It's not only that they like each other, it's a very bizarre thing, it puts a whole new perspective on this whole thing. It gives you lots of stuff to play off of between them. Maybe she still likes him. It's something he'd rather forget about and not have come up again. This gives her a lot of ammunition to fight with.

S — In a way, she could say, "You've made me this hard."

G — This is a resource that you can either mine or not. It's not as blatant as we're talking about. You don't think about it that much. You don't immediately realize how old she was at the time. It would be subtle. She could talk about it. "I was jail bait the last time we were together." She can flaunt it at him, but at the same time she never says, "I was fifteen years old." Even if we don't mention it, when we go to cast the part we're going to end up with a woman who's about twenty-three and a hero who's about thirty-five.

"RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK" Story Conference Transcript, January 23, 1978 thru January 27, 1978.

George Lucas, Steven Spielberg, Larry Kasdan

This story conference took place January 22 thru 27, 1978. Roman Polanski fled the U.S. after being accused of the statutory rape of a 13 year old girl... on 31 January 1978.

 

[Wor-Gar]

G — ... a hero who's about thirty-five.

See? That was his age back in Raiders time. Before the screw ups. Before the Empire.

 

[Wor-Gar]

This story conference took place January 22 thru 27, 1978. Roman Polanski fled the U.S. after being accused of the statutory rape of a 13 year old girl... on 31 January 1978.

Things were different in the 70's. It was a primitive time.

 

[Felinx]

The lil' girl Marion isn't the only highly questionable statements made in those transcripts:

G — This is where he goes into the cave. We had it where there's a couple native bearers, whatever, and sort of a couple of Mexican, well not Mexican... Let's put it...

S — They're like Mayan.

G — They're the third world local sleazos. Whether, they're Mexicans or Arabs or whatever.

S — They carry the boxes over their heads. They fall off cliffs.

G — The sleazos with the thin moustaches. Those are the peon laborers. ..... They're going up this hill and they come into a clearing and you see the temple across the way. All the natives get restless and start to split.

 

[Felinx]

Things were different in the 70's. It was a primitive time.

No it wasn't, I've seen all the movies and TV shows set in the 70s.

It was a time of sexual freedom, liberation and righteous protest, the shrugging off of hateful, repressive social norms.

And um... when children could consent. And when the murder rate quadrupled. And the divorce rate nearly tripled.

 

[Wor-Gar]

No it wasn't, I've seen all the movies and TV shows set in the 70s.

It was a time of sexual freedom, liberation and righteous protest, the shrugging off of hateful, repressive social norms.

And um... when children could consent. And when the murder rate quadrupled. And the divorce rate nearly tripled.

Ahhh... the good old days.

 

[VanHelscwing]

Todd Howard/Bethesda studios the game studio behind Starfield, Skyrim and the Fallout series are making an Indiana Jones game. Maybe they could get Harrison to voice Indy. It might be too small time for him but if the pitch is good enough maybe Ford might want to go out on a better note than what Kennedy and Mangold served up. Howard is a HUGE Indy fan and has been thinking about the premise for years not unlike Starfield.

 

[JMT1979]

The crazy thing about this movie is that it cost up to $300m to make, yet Raiders cost $20m, which adjusted for inflation is about $60m. That means DoD cost up to six times as much as Raiders, despite Raiders using all real sets and special effects.
I thought the whole point of CGI was to reduce cost (as well as safety for stunt people).
Where the heck did all the money go?

 

[Raiders March]

Wait, where did you get 50 in 1944?

In Raiders, Indy is supposed to be about 35 and its 1936. He'd be born in 1901. And 43 in 1944. And 68 in 1969. Wouldn't that seem closer to correct?

Doesn’t Crusade open with 1912, and indys a boy scout? So maybe 13-15 years old?

 

[Raiders March]

The crazy thing about this movie is that it cost up to $300m to make, yet Raiders cost $20m, which adjusted for inflation is about $60m. That means DoD cost up to six times as much as Raiders, despite Raiders using all real sets and special effects.
I thought the whole point of CGI was to reduce cost (as well as safety for stunt people).
Where the heck did all the money go?

Pandemic delays and rewrite after rewrite! That’s where..