eBay not accepting money orders

[DarthTrafford]

From eBay...
Faster, more reliable checkout on eBay
Starting this fall, we're moving to an electronic checkout process that's faster and more reliable for sellers and buyers. As part of this move, checks and money orders will no longer be accepted on eBay, although buyers can still use these payment methods for item pick-up, at the seller's discretion. In addition, the electronic payment methods will be fully integrated into eBay checkout. For example, if a seller has an internet merchant account, a buyer will be able to directly enter a credit card and never have to leave the site.

Today, items paid with check or money order are 80% more likely to result in an item not received (INR) than those paid with credit card or PayPal. Also, buyers who pay with check or money order are 50% more likely to leave negative feedback than those who pay with electronic methods. So starting in late October, 2008, we are moving to 100% electronic payments - credit cards, ProPay, or PayPal.

This means that sellers will be able to offer credit card payments through their own merchant accounts, and payments through ProPay and/or PayPal, with all payment methods integrated into the checkout process on eBay. Seller will also get paid faster and be able to ship items quicker. And remember, for those buyers and sellers who use PayPal, we're backing every eligible transaction with our buyer and seller protections. (See more information on paperless payments and more on terms for the PayPal Buyer and Seller Protection plans.)


Well that sucks for me. I always use money orders.
:chew

 

[GrueSam]

Why don't they just leave ebay alone???

 

[customizerwannabe]

Because they are greedy ^^^^ers trying to rob you blind. They will make a ^^^^load more money this way. I'll still accept MO's on ebay and there really won't be a way for them to police this so ^^^^ ebay!!!!!!!

 

[El Roranous]

Because they are greedy ^^^^ers trying to rob you blind. They will make a ^^^^load more money this way. I'll still accept MO's on ebay and there really won't be a way for them to police this so ^^^^ ebay!!!!!!!

Word.

Ebay is too greedy.

 

[Eli26]

I don't use eBay, so this doesn't affect me. :chew

 

[customizerwannabe]

I don't use eBay, so this doesn't affect me. :chew

You don't use ebay? Man, where are you from...Canada?

 

[Ultimate Weapon]

I've used ebay for years and I have seen no correlation between money orders and less reliability, etc. Where does ebay come up with this stuff? Do that many people really get screwed? Have I dealt with the only decent people on ebay? Seriously I don't get it.

I know people get screwed on ebay, but I don't think forcing everything through Paypal is a legitimate response to prevent this. It sounds more and more to me like they want to take out the individual responsibility of trading with each other and make it more like an online store, only they get to reap more fees from both ends - Paypal and ebay. At least if theyknocked out the Paypal fees it might seem more fair.

Couldn't people just bypass Paypal and send money orders anyway, or will there be measures in place to prevent this?

 

[customizerwannabe]

I don't see at all how they can. I'm going to tell buyers to checkout with local pickup option and email for my address. Ebay gets the paypal pie and that's the only reason for this.

 

[Eli26]

You don't use ebay? Man, where are you from...Canada?

Why do I need to use eBay, when I can just use you Ed?

 

[customizerwannabe]

Why do I need to use eBay, when I can just use you Ed?

Oh SNAP!!!

 

[customizerwannabe]

Great post. I'll be honest, 90% of my auctions are paid for by paypal and my problems add up to about 1-2% of my transactions. I find most of the chargebacks come from foreign buyers who say something never arrived. Unless they pay big bucks for priority shipping there is no tracking and no seller protection. Almost always Italy for some reason. I don't require priority shipping to international buyers because I think they deserve a shot at a good deal as much as anyone else. The vast majority of buyers I've shipped to have been very honest. I've shipped to Indonesia, Russia, Belgium, South Africa, and all of the other less esoteric destinations in the last 12 months. I consider paypal and ebay to be evil...but necessary evils in my life. Between the 2, they score about 400.00 a month on average from me. You would think they would treat us better.

This new paypal rule won't hurt me too much, but it is simply wrong. It's dishonest and almost seems like an anti-trust violation. Someone someday is going to offer a viable alternative to Ebay. When they do, I'll be first in line to jump this sinking ship.

 

[automaton]

money orders? what are you 80?

 

[customizerwannabe]

I was actually surprised they offered the power seller option to me. I didn't think I sold that much. However, the listing benefits for me are non existent. I don't get a better rate at all. Same as everyone else. You really get hammered if you open an ebay store. They charge you less up front but more on the back end. A bad deal. They are starting a new program next month where fixed item listings are charged a flat .35 listing fee no matter how much the selling price is. Final value fees remain the same. I will be listing a lot more fixed items sales when that starts.

Ebay and paypal are definitely a gamble. I'm also a paypal user from the early days. Over 10 years with my account. Never had it frozen. Had funds frozen over disputes but never a blanket action on the account. I think the occasional seller still has a place on ebay. He will have to be very vigilant though. Ebay selling is not for noobs. Learn the ins and outs of the system first. Especially if selling large ticket items. I do feel ebay is on a collision course with it's own greed and will soon be hitting critical mass. Hopefully that will cause some reversals to recent horrible policy changes. Only time will tell.

 

[DarthTrafford]

money orders? what are you 80?

When I use eBay and the seller says pay pal or money orders I use money orders all the time and I have had 0 complaints from the sellers and I have 51 positive feedbacks. I'm always prompt at sending them out the same day or next day.
:chew

 

[customizerwannabe]

When I use eBay and the seller says pay pal or money orders I use money orders all the time and I have had 0 complaints from the sellers and I have 51 positive feedbacks. I'm always prompt at sending them out the same day or next day.
:chew

You're my kind of buyer!

 

[creecher]

Almost always Italy for some reason.

When I worked for our Post Office, 15 - 20 years ago, I was told that if they (Italy) gets overloaded with mail, they just burn it. That may have been an overstatement, but from what I've heard, it's certainly a different system over there.

 

[customizerwannabe]

When I worked for our Post Office, 15 - 20 years ago, I was told that if they (Italy) gets overloaded with mail, they just burn it. That may have been an overstatement, but from what I've heard, it's certainly a different system over there.

 

[Mesa]

Ebay is going to create a formula for non Ebay Checkout completed auctions.

If Ebay claims that 10 percent of all transactions are paper only, my guess is the litmus will be 15 percent. Anything above that and I think they will lock you out unless you are a PowerSeller ( PowerSellers pay too much in fees for Ebay to want to shut them down) Power Sellers have the advantage of volume selling too.

I'm an occasional seller and am MO only. I haven't taken PayPal in years. When PayPal changed their TOS circa 2003/2004 (they've changed it several times), I read it and considered every exploit I could use as a buyer/bidder. Sorry it's just the way I think. With PayPal, specifically as a seller, it is very very difficult to defend yourself against certain schemes and rip off tactics. Read their TOS sometime, it's brutal, I mean absolutely brutal to the seller. I never minded PayPal fees, never, its very cheap in fees for what you should ideally get in service. But as a seller you have a very difficult time defending yourself. I'm sorry, but people who get upset at sellers so easily should really trying selling sometime. I'm not defending all sellers, because a lot are jerks, but many are just trying to sell in a fashion that keeps them in compliance to the ever changing Ebay rules and make a profit and try to deal in the most BS free way possible.

Guys like customizerwannabe and me are the guys who will get hurt short term, everyone else long term. Guys like us will find it more and more complicated to sell and protect ourselves. If we stop selling, true secondary market items just don't get listed. Right now I'm moving specific HT loose Colonial Marine stuff and a few other military grade 1/6th items that are decommissioned or long gone. I've seen customizerwannabe's auctions and he's moving very very very hard to find HT Battle Damage Terminator parts.

Yes sometimes the prices skyrocket out to the moon for a few things, but he and I have no control over that, bidders do. But Ebay fails to see what draws people on site, to buy that Buy.com retail grade access stuff in the first place is people browsing for pure secondary market niche items. Ebay also fails to see that guys like customizerwannabe and I are also potential bidders/buyers on other auctions. For our own collections or maybe to occasionally flip ( don't judge it ok) or for new trade ammo. Drive us off as sellers and you drive us off as potential bidders as well. Ebay also fails to see lots of people who collect pretty much anything like to fund new purchases, many of them on Ebay, with funds they got from selling stuff. You kill the small seller, you are also killing off the small buyer.

As for the local pickup option, the new rules state you MUST offer at least one electronic payment option for EVERY auction. It means if you accept PayPal, the guy can pay that way, pick it up, you get your money in your account and in 60 days he can say he never got it and file a claim. Since PayPal will only accept tracking info from a shipping carrier to verify delivery under their Seller Protection TOS, you are stuck. Now PayPal and Ebay will red flag anyone who files too many chargebacks, but if you are the first seller they hit, they will likely get away with it if you do Pickup along with PayPal. Basically if you are an Ebay Bidder/Buyer in good standing, look for any local pickup item you want and you can use your one time mulligan to pay for it, pick it up, file a claim 60 days later, get your money refunded and still keep the stuff. You can specify cash or MO only on pickup, but if the person takes the electronic option, you are at full risk as a seller. Anyone want a free flat screen TV local to you? Now you can get one for free with a one time mulligan with a PayPal account.

As for emails via Ebay's PM system, they regularly sweep for keywords or series of keywords in your listings and messages. They can simply block out the word money order or cash or Western Union and flag those messages that contain that text. They can block out sequences like [Any number of characters][Comma][Any two single letter characters][Any 5 characters in sequence that are numerical] to try to block you out from emailing your mailing address to a buyer.

I read the new announcement a couple of nights ago and have already considered about 15 new loopholes in their proposed changes. Loopholes that will jack sellers and loopholes around their requirements. ( For example, Ebay can sweep for specific text in their listings, they can't sweep for text written on an image that is uploaded into an auction via HTML. To them, without looking at it, a picture is a picture. They don't know if a picture contains text on it, including a way to pay you via money orders)

I stopped taking PayPal because I know if I applied what I considered in five minutes after reading it's TOS, I could just wreak real havoc and mayhem onto sellers as a bidder/buyer. And there are people out there smarter than me and more ruthless than me and could spend much longer dreaming up schemes who could probably do worse. PayPal is not a bank, they are not regulated like one and signing their TOS waives you of many of your rights that were granted via your normal CC or bank account.

There will be some workarounds to the Money Order/check issue, I'm sure of it, when I brainstorm a few more, I'll post them up to see what people think.

GG

Notice what Ed said above. He has dealt with many overseas bidders/buyers in good faith and most of those situations worked out.

However, to be absolutely fair, his problem rate 1-2 percent as he said, is a result of dealing with 99 percent honest and decent people just looking to collect this stuff. He has to, like I have to, like any seller has to, rely simply on the good will of bidders and their discretion to be decent not to get steamrolled by Ebay and PayPal policies.

There's a sharp contrast between Ed and I on Ebay. He's a PowerSeller, I am not. There are inherent benefits he gets that I don't. (Certain listing discounts, ability to get real live phone support if needed, working against a different formula before he gets banned or suspended for infractions or perceived infractions) As a Power Seller, it's almost implied that he MUST use PayPal since 85-90 percent of Ebay uses it to a large degree. In fact, new users are now forced to sign up with PayPal to sell and buy. On the flip side, Ed is exposed to a great deal more risk than I am. A really bad streak for a few weeks with really crappy bidders or thieves and Ed could find himself suspended for 30 days or have his PayPal account frozen.

Using PayPal is like getting married, you are leaving your financial destiny, to some degree, in the hands of other people at their discretion. Like I said and like Ed said, most people are inherently good and decent. But some are cutthroat and will jack you first chance they can. The more volume you sell, the more desirable items you have, the more rare your item - the more risk you naturally incur.

Ed and I and other sixth scale sellers are lucky. Most of us deal in loose parts. The values can be good, but only to our hobby collector base. We aren't dealing in IPods or IPhones or Video game consoles where even non genre fans/collectors can see the inherent value in jacking you. Our items are usually small, easy to ship and lots of things hold great secondary market value. If Ed had three cases of HT Hicks to sell, I can assure you, scam artist and thieves would vulture his auctions. Half the battle in protecting yourself is the category of items you tend to list. People who do consoles and IPods or electronics or expensive women's accessories like handbangs are naturally screwed.

Veteran sellers learn over time to "sell defensively", it's kind of like "driving defensively" You aren't looking to run people off the road, you are just accepting that you are surrounded by controlled chaos and often dealing with people who could care less if they kill you on the road or not.

Taking away money orders and checks is only a third of the problem. The bigger issues is funneling people into PayPal or not being able to list. I used to take PayPal. I was one of the original people to sign up for PayPal. I used it often. I was an early sign up, relatively, for Ebay as well. I closed my PayPal account in good standing with no problems years ago, I would love to feel more comfortable not doing MO only, but PayPal is not a system I can trust.I am, in fact, and all sellers here, are, in fact, relying on the good will of strangers to not manipulate your banking information if they can get to it and to not use easy to exploit loopholes to steal your stuff and ruin your credit.

Ed as a Power Seller is safer than me from potential harm via Ebay and PayPal, but in another way, he's not. The extra protection he gets is derived from consistent volume and benchmarks. That means any incremental changes hurt him worse than a much smaller seller like me. If Ebay makes a sweeping change that hurts a bottom line by 3 percent, for me if I sell 10 things, that's not a huge factor. For someone like Ed who might move 200-250 things a month? That's a lot of money. Never underestimate how little cuts add up over time to tally into a lot of blood. There is a multiplier effect that cuts both ways.

Like I said before, unless you sell quite a bit or have sold for a long time, I can see how the average bidder/buyer might not quite get what the average long term or consistent seller has to do or deal with. I am not complaining here, I want to make that clear, people who choose to list and sell make that choice freely and need to eat the risks that come with it. I'm just pointing out the ripple effect. If the people who list the cool and interesting and rare stuff have to jump through 8000 hoops to do it, they won't do it anymore. And for those of you who want to buy that kind of cool odd or end sometime that you can't get anywhere else might not get a chance to see it or get it as a result. Fewer sellers is bad for you buyers/bidders. Humans react poorly to perceived scarcity. If you really want a HT Hicks and enough people list them up, the prices tend to stabilize and flat line ( he's about 400 bucks now marketwise) Kill off all the small sellers who would have listed him and what could have been 60 Hicks listed and sold this past year might have been 10. How much more do you think it would have cost you to get a Hicks if you really wanted one if the supply in a given year dropped that dramatically? And often people here on SSF use Ebay as a baseline to sell their own stuff in the commerce area, in fact in the entire hobby, people use Ebay as a baseline often to determine what to sell collector to collector.

Killing off the small seller is bad for everyone, I'm not saying that because I am an occasional small seller myself, I am saying that because I am, at heart, a collector like everyone else here.

GG

Mods, I think Gordon should get a 5X or 10X multiplier for his posts, all of them seem to be very well thought out and articulated.

 

[automaton]

sorry Gordon, i understand your situation... perhaps these sort of roadblocks are necessary in order for us to find even better solutions.

 

[Zodach]

Ebay could use some competition so that they wouldn't be able to control the online auction market so much. They pretty much do whatever they want because of this. I'm not helping by using them so often, but the alternatives just aren't there.